The expenses, Rich touched on that. We still are getting some benefit, if you will, from the lack of travel as a result of COVID, though that is starting to pick up a bit.

Jan 27, 2022 / CEO / receipt, needs a key / Rob Berkley, CEO | earnings call 2022-01-27 | transcript 5786680c-dc7c-4743-9458-ea1c71ec9b9c | chars 11691-11862 | segment 11