So the ambition is, of course, even when we resume life as normal, the new normal or the now normal, as we say, travel will, of course, be lower than they were before. pre-pandemic because we have learned so much in how to interact both with customers and internally as well as most likely other costs like real estate.

Apr 21, 2021 / receipt, needs a key / Börje Ekholm, CEO | earnings call 2021-04-21 | transcript 2c34000d-0771-4207-99ce-6df6dcd70ad1 | chars 37010-37329 | segment 37

That came out 7.4 billion as you see that. a reduction of 0.8 billion year over year. And this reduction is mainly explained by less traveling, less trials cost and other external spend, but also some provision release.

Jan 29, 2021 / receipt, needs a key / Börje Ekholm, CFO | earnings call 2021-01-29 | transcript c8c05bcf-7d5e-433b-90af-6fd272c650ab | chars 13733-13952 | segment 13

And the second question relates to OPEX, which was quite low in the quarter, as you say, partly related to less traveling due to the pandemic.

Jan 29, 2021 / receipt, needs a key / Johanna Ahlqvist, other | earnings call 2021-01-29 | transcript c8c05bcf-7d5e-433b-90af-6fd272c650ab | chars 35660-35802 | segment 36

I suppose a reasonable estimate is that we will not go back to pre-COVID travel levels, but it's likely to increase a bit from 2020 whenever we can say that we are out of the pandemic.

Jan 29, 2021 / receipt, needs a key / Unidentified Executive, other | earnings call 2021-01-29 | transcript c8c05bcf-7d5e-433b-90af-6fd272c650ab | chars 36850-37034 | segment 37